16:32:58 <prock> #startmeeting
16:32:58 <fifer> Meeting started Sun Dec 13 16:32:58 2009 UTC.  The chair is prock. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:32:58 <fifer> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
16:33:26 <prock> can you op me please vtchill
16:33:30 <prock> actually op fifer
16:33:41 <vtchill> sure
16:33:45 <prock> thanks
16:34:14 <vtchill> so you want fife to be an operator
16:34:27 <prock> yeah just so it can change topic of the channel
16:35:41 <prock> see this URL for meetbot commands: http://meetbot.debian.net/Manual.html
16:36:27 <prock> #meetintopic FIFE - December Developer Meeting
16:36:33 <prock> #meetingtopic FIFE - December Developer Meeting
16:36:49 <prock> okay here we go
16:37:38 <prock> #topic Remaining tickets for 0.3.0 release
16:38:18 <prock> we dont have a lot left....
16:38:55 <prock> #328 (Improve our build scripts) is going to be done soon.
16:39:03 <prock> what do we have left?
16:39:36 <vtchill> the linux stuff is still not done
16:39:43 <vtchill> i am working on the dependency checking right now
16:40:08 <prock> and thats on linux specifically because it works on darwin
16:40:11 <prock> not sure about BSD
16:40:37 <prock> any ideas why it's not working?
16:41:18 <vtchill> well it fails to find guichan_sdl, and when i look at the config.log it basically has a bunch of undefined references to functions inside guichan
16:41:29 <vtchill> i will post the relevant config.log
16:41:38 <prock> k
16:42:21 <prock> Do you think it's a show stopper or will you be able to figure it out?
16:42:49 <vtchill> well i am hoping to figure it out, i am trying different things now, like including more files
16:43:19 <prock> gotcha...  well if you run out of ideas I'm building a Ubuntu box right now to see if I can help out
16:43:57 <prock> #action vtchill will continue to work on the linux dependency checking
16:44:29 <prock> okay.. what about the project file generation?
16:44:58 <vtchill> here are the errors, http://fife.pastebin.com/m2a669c1f
16:46:11 <vtchill> are we talking project file generation on the windows side?
16:46:16 <prock> hmm looks like you need to link libguichan.so to that
16:46:56 <prock> try doing guichan before guichan_sdl
16:46:57 <vtchill> ah maybe that is right, it is not in the link link as a lib
16:47:08 <vtchill> well you can really pick the order it does things
16:47:15 <vtchill> it is before it in the list
16:47:20 <prock> hmm
16:47:29 <vtchill> you need to specify it as part of the dependency i think
16:47:35 <vtchill> i will work on that
16:47:39 <prock> k cool
16:47:40 <vtchill> that could be the fix
16:47:56 <prock> yeah sounds like it
16:48:06 <prock> okay.. back to project file generation
16:48:25 <prock> yeah I'm talking project file generation for code_blocks and msvc
16:48:41 <vtchill> ok so does what you wrote seem to work?
16:48:53 <prock> not 100%
16:49:08 <vtchill> ok what is not happening correctly
16:49:12 <prock> I cant get it to put the correct path on the fife_wrap.cc file
16:49:20 <vtchill> what does it put
16:49:25 <prock> umm...  something odd
16:49:40 <prock> one sec
16:50:39 <prock> ..  <Unit filename="..\..\..\..\engine\release\swigwrappers\python\fife_wrap.cc">
16:50:52 <prock> the release is in there for some reason
16:51:04 <prock> but I'm thinking about scrapping all that code anyway because it seems like such a hack
16:51:41 <prock> if you look at the python source code package they provide project files for just about everything
16:51:55 <prock> and they maintain them all
16:52:06 <prock> it doens't look like there is a script to "update them"
16:52:19 <vtchill> yea the only thing i worry about is when i add a file i now have to add it to every IDE we support, which doesn't sound great since i don't even have all the ides
16:52:49 <prock> yeah.. that is a problem... but you can manually edit the files as they are plain text
16:53:07 <vtchill> well that i think would be even more error prone, the msvc files are hideous
16:53:22 <prock> you dont have msvc?
16:54:01 <vtchill> yea i do, was just using their text file as an example of something i could edit by hand but would not want to
16:55:10 <prock> true...   I just dont like generating them.  I would propose breaking them out into their own scripts
16:55:27 <prock> sorry.. what I mean to say is that I dont like generating them with scons
16:56:24 <prock> #idea break the project file generation out into their own scripts to simplify the scons build environment
16:56:40 <prock> how does that sound?
16:57:48 <vtchill> that sounds plausible,
16:58:43 <prock> well... tell you what.  I'll look at it a bit more and see if I can figure a way to keep them seperate from all the other scons stuff
16:59:07 <prock> #agreed we will continue to generate the project files.  We still have to decide how exactly we are going to to it.
16:59:21 <prock> #action prock will look at how to best generate project files
16:59:53 <prock> it'll be a little work but another idea I just had was...
17:01:38 <prock> #idea break each project builder into it's own SConscript file to keep the scons environemtn clean
17:02:12 <prock> okay next topic
17:02:21 <vtchill> don't think it needs to be its own SConscript, maybe just a vanilla python file for each IDE we support
17:02:49 <prock> yup...  that way we dont have to conform to the scons way of doing things.. makes it a bit more flexible
17:03:12 <prock> we could have SCons call those scripts even.. hehe
17:03:19 <prock> but I guess we have one last problem with SCons
17:03:38 <prock> how do you build EXT without checking dependencies?
17:03:55 <prock> i.e. the first time you run FIFE none of the libraries in ext will be built
17:04:09 <prock> so you need to bypass Config() somehow
17:05:04 <vtchill> ah yes
17:06:08 <vtchill> i will have to think a little about this
17:06:11 <vtchill> i will look into it though
17:06:36 <vtchill> maybe some Depends setup in the SCons for the fife lib to the ext stuff
17:06:48 <vtchill> that may even make the auto build of the ext stuff
17:09:22 <prock> #action vtchill will look into the issue where ext needs to be built before the scons config can run
17:09:45 <prock> anything else to think about before we merge that into trunk?
17:09:55 <vtchill> lots of testing :)
17:09:56 <prock> I've already built the new Dev Kit
17:10:12 <prock> yeah I'll have to build a BSD box to test
17:10:17 <prock> I want to get this done sooooon
17:10:20 <prock> okay next
17:10:36 <prock> what about the guichan 0.8.2 upgrade for linux?
17:11:02 <prock> that should be a matter of downloading, unpacking, and patching the key.hpp file
17:11:09 <prock> I can do that if you want
17:11:14 <prock> same with unittest++
17:11:24 <vtchill> yes unittest++ removal is another issue
17:11:40 <prock> I can look at that one also if you want
17:12:04 <prock> shouldn't be much of a problem.  most distros have a unittest package now
17:12:09 <prock> so I think it's safe to remove it
17:12:16 <vtchill> yea how do we look that up
17:12:35 <prock> well I know as a fact there is a ubuntu package and macports package
17:12:54 <prock> just gotta check fedora and suse and I think we are safe
17:13:02 <prock> everyone else is on their own
17:13:09 <prock> not like the unit tests actually work right now anyway
17:13:19 <vtchill> ah crap they dont
17:13:28 <prock> none of the core_tests do
17:13:42 <prock> I got some of them working on darwin
17:14:55 <vtchill> interesting
17:15:23 <vtchill> well something else to look at as well
17:15:29 <prock> they dont work in windows because of the DLL export/import thing
17:15:41 <prock> I dont think they work in trunk so thats for another release
17:15:47 <vtchill> ok
17:16:04 <prock> so I'll remove unittest++?
17:16:16 <prock> we can always re-add if there is a problem
17:16:27 <vtchill> alright
17:16:47 <prock> #action prock will remove unittest++ from ext
17:17:07 <prock> okay what about guichan 0.8.2?
17:17:17 <prock> I can look into that one also if you want
17:18:06 <prock> #action prock will look at upgrading guichan to 0.8.2 in ext
17:18:10 <prock> okay next topic
17:18:27 <prock> install target
17:18:30 <vtchill> do you know the edit we need in the key.hpp
17:18:36 <prock> yup I sure do
17:18:39 <vtchill> ok great
17:19:15 <vtchill> so install target what in particular
17:20:03 <prock> well..   can we actually have one until the ext stuff is worked out?
17:20:24 <prock> I mean... the way I have the SCons files set up it's pretty simple to install files places
17:20:53 <vtchill> yea i'm not sure i would worry too much about the install target stuff right now for the build system rewrite
17:21:08 <prock> since it's not in trunk.. I'm not too worried about it
17:21:27 <prock> okay so agreed we dont worry about that one until after we merge back into trunk?
17:21:52 <vtchill> yes i would say that is good
17:21:56 <prock> okay cool
17:22:17 <prock> #agreed we will not worry about install target until after we merge back into trunk
17:22:45 <prock> okay thats that
17:22:48 <prock> I'll worry about packaging
17:22:54 <prock> and the wiki
17:22:58 <prock> and the news items
17:23:24 <vtchill> ok
17:23:33 <prock> guess the bigest thing now is the date
17:23:52 <vtchill> not too much time left in 2009
17:24:08 <prock> I'm just going to throw a date out there.. I"d like to stick to it as I'll release a news item declairing the date
17:24:51 <prock> say... Jan 20th?
17:24:58 <prock> just over a month
17:25:10 <prock> to tie up everything we have left to do?
17:25:30 <vtchill> i think that would be good, try and release at the beginning of the year
17:25:41 <prock> we'll leave the view_performance to another release I guess.. unless phoku is able to get it merged into trunk before then
17:26:03 <prock> but there are some outstanding bugs in it...   so I guess we will play that one by ear
17:26:15 <prock> jan 20th sounds good then?
17:27:17 <prock> oops forgot to set topic
17:27:24 <prock> #topic FIFE 0.3.0 release date
17:27:38 <vtchill> jan 20 sounds doable
17:27:46 <vtchill> and yes i would leave performance out of this release
17:27:50 <prock> okay.. I'm going to announce it on the forums and blog
17:28:01 <prock> I'll announce it on Monday
17:28:12 <prock> and then we have some motivation to get this done :D
17:28:55 <prock> #agreed On January 20th, 2009 we will release FIFE 0.3.0
17:29:08 <prock> and thats it...
17:29:21 <prock> anything else that you wanted to talk about?
17:31:02 <vtchill> should we go into future at all, or leave for another time
17:32:14 <prock> well..  lets get this stuff done...  once 0.3.0 is out of the way I think we can start worrying about the future.
17:32:19 <prock> I'd like to get one more dev on the team
17:32:38 <vtchill> ok
17:32:44 <prock> how does that sound?
17:32:54 <prock> or....  how do you feel about that?
17:33:10 <vtchill> i think one more dev would be good
17:33:44 <prock> I'm actually going to put some posters up here at the local university
17:34:09 <prock> see if I can get some students interested
17:34:42 <prock> hope to snag a young talented go getter that will come in and have skills and patients to learn FIFE
17:35:03 <prock> start them out with bugs
17:35:40 <prock> I'm also thinking about FIFE logos
17:35:42 <vtchill> sounds good to me, just got to be careful to get the right person
17:35:56 <prock> yeah
17:36:17 <prock> one reason I'm holding off is because I want to get FIFE cleaned up to a point where it doesn't scare people away
17:36:33 <vtchill> haha thats a good way to put it
17:36:49 <prock> if the build system works well I think it will be just a little easier to attract that one dev we need
17:36:56 <vtchill> also for build rewrite we need a helpful way to manage the new options we have for building
17:37:37 <vtchill> just something to think about for the near term
17:37:39 <prock> oh hey vtchill.. if you have an idea you want highlighted by the meeting bot all you have to do is prefix your idea with #idea
17:38:01 <vtchill> hehe ok will try to remember
17:38:44 <prock> can you ellaborate a bit about how to manage the new options
17:39:00 <prock> oh that reminds me
17:39:05 <prock> I was thinking about moving some files around in FIFE
17:39:19 <prock> just the COPYING, AUTHORS, and README files
17:39:57 <prock> right now they are in <FIFE>/build/doc
17:39:58 <vtchill> well it used to just be "scons"... now its "scons --release fife-python" or "scons -c --release fife-python"
17:40:06 <vtchill> just a little more stuff for clients to get confused about
17:40:16 <prock> true...  we have to update docs
17:40:48 <prock> if we set the default options we aren't doing to bad
17:41:08 <prock> but.. I want to move those files into <FIFE>/
17:41:19 <prock> because with mose projects thats where they are
17:41:20 <vtchill> move which files?
17:41:42 <prock> <FIFE>/doc/AUTHORS, COPYING, README
17:41:53 <prock> sorry.. I said <FIFE>/build/doc up there but that was a typo
17:42:24 <prock> usually those files reside in the project root directory
17:42:39 <vtchill> thats true
17:42:56 <prock> I would also like to make a "src_package" target for scons
17:43:13 <vtchill> and what would that do
17:43:24 <prock> makes packaging easier.. thats all
17:43:40 <prock> okay...   lets end this meeting
17:43:43 <vtchill> not sure if this is what you are talking about, but i would be really in favor of splitting rio out of the engine repository download
17:43:54 <vtchill> i think we should try and get this done in 0.3.0
17:43:57 <prock> ahh
17:44:06 <vtchill> and treat rio as a client just like uh or parpg
17:44:06 <prock> #idea split rio out of the engine repository
17:44:15 <prock> very good idea.. I was just thinking about this
17:44:27 <prock> hmm...  where would you put it?
17:45:05 <vtchill> maybe in the repository under fife/demos... or fife/demos/python ... not 100% sure
17:45:12 <prock> I think I would rename "clients" to "tools"...  which is where the map editor would be
17:45:24 <prock> sorry.. I would rename it after rio got moved out
17:46:17 <prock> okay cool.. so you want to do that before 0.3.0?
17:46:27 <vtchill> i think we need a sister directory structure in fife repository for demos... so fife/trunk.... and a demos/(branches, trunk, etc.)
17:46:41 <vtchill> it would be nice to pull it out to make download easier
17:47:11 <prock> #agreed rio_de_hola should be moved out of trunk and treated like any other client
17:47:48 <prock> yup and it could have it's own package
17:47:51 <vtchill> can we make that a bug for 0.3.0
17:48:24 <prock> yeah the hardest part of moving it is updating all the docs
17:48:53 <prock> so you want to get that done before we release 0.3.0?
17:49:04 <prock> I'll make a ticket for that
17:49:19 <prock> but I gotta go
17:49:23 <vtchill> well i would put that as a goal, but we could move it out and lets treat that as the least important 0.3.0
17:49:42 <prock> #action prock will make a ticket for moving rio out of trunk for the 0.3.0 release.  will make it low priority.
17:49:45 <prock> okay..
17:49:46 <vtchill> k man good meeting, later
17:49:48 <prock> #endmeeting