17:39:45 <prock> #startmeeting 17:39:45 <fifer`> Meeting started Mon Aug 8 17:39:45 2011 UTC. The chair is prock. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 17:39:45 <fifer`> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. 17:40:01 <vtchill> so first before we begin, i want to just say thanks to kozmo for really helping drive the release features 17:40:18 <prock> #topic remaining tasks for next release 17:40:23 <vtchill> i know prock and i have had really busy summers and its been good to see the fife development keep moving 17:40:43 <kozmo> great to hear such a warm words 17:40:49 <prock> yeah it's been insane for me 17:41:06 <vtchill> a little busies than i had hoped unfortunately for me 17:41:12 <prock> so thanks so much kozmo.. you've done so much for FIFE :D 17:41:15 <vtchill> *busier 17:41:49 <vtchill> also i dont now what your plans are kozmo, but we would love to have you be a contributor for longer than just gsoc if you were interested 17:41:54 <vtchill> *know 17:42:05 <kozmo> murphy laws :) 17:42:18 <kozmo> sure thing, ill stay around 17:42:39 <prock> thats great :D 17:43:27 <prock> okay... we should get going on the topics 17:43:34 <vtchill> yep lets do it 17:44:13 <prock> agenda is here: http://wiki.fifengine.net/Meeting:2011/08 17:44:21 <vtchill> and of course if you are eligible next year for gsoc again we could have you work on our stuff again (not sure if that is allowed if you are a full member of the dev team) 17:44:56 <vtchill> alright i will start with the tasks i want to finish 17:45:07 <prock> okay 17:45:22 <vtchill> map/object/animation savers.. to mirror what is currenly in place for loaders 17:46:15 <vtchill> editor plug-ins for using custom loaders/savers based on the new c++ loader/saver paradigm 17:48:05 <vtchill> so for the editor changes i am thinking of looking for plugins that match the loader/saver and providing those in a context menu as part of the load/save options in the File menu 17:48:34 <vtchill> ok those are my 2 that i know of 17:48:53 <prock> awesome.. we should try and hammer out how exactly the loader/saver plugins will work 17:49:05 <prock> I can go next 17:49:15 <vtchill> i expect the saver code to take 2 weeks 17:49:35 <vtchill> and the editor additions to take another week or so depending on how complicated we want to get 17:49:53 <vtchill> ok now i'm done :) 17:50:16 <prock> k.. that brings us to the last week in august 17:50:43 <prock> vtchill.. can you re-type all that except put an #info infront of it? 17:50:56 <prock> it'll add them to the meeting mins 17:51:00 <prock> automatically 17:51:06 <vtchill> ok do i need to put a title next to info? 17:51:27 <prock> no I dont think so 17:51:37 <vtchill> can i do multiple lines of info? 17:51:56 <prock> you can put multiple infos 17:52:00 <prock> one line each 17:52:33 <prock> #link MeetBot help (for future reference) http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot 17:52:36 <vtchill> #info Task 1: implement map/object/animation savers in c++ duration: 2 weeks 17:53:40 <vtchill> #info Task 2: Implement editor additions to allow clients to use and select custom loaders and savers duration: 1 week 17:53:52 <prock> perfect 17:54:12 <prock> oh what about the boost::filesystem thing? 17:54:17 <vtchill> ah yes 17:54:34 <prock> I am just looking through the remaining tickets 17:54:58 <kozmo> with newest boost i get errors, even from engine/core/vfs 17:55:10 <vtchill> #info Task 3: Fix the compatability problems with boost::filesystem duration: 1 day 17:55:12 <vtchill> wait really kozmo ? 17:55:19 <vtchill> in vfsdirectory.cpp? 17:55:45 <vtchill> i tested with 1.47 and 1.36 and 1.34.1 and all of them worked on win32 17:56:06 <vtchill> there will be errors from MapLoader.cpp right now until those are fixed 17:56:44 <kozmo> im not sure now, but i believe errors came from vfs directory 17:57:27 <prock> hmm.. we'll have to discuss this one after the meeting and figure out the details 17:57:29 <vtchill> very weird, i know a couple linux guys had errors because it was mixing their 1.46 libs with an older version of headers which was causing the version to be incorrect and then we would select the wrong function 17:58:55 <prock> okay.. for my tasks.. I have a few tickets to review 17:59:16 <vtchill> well if you do get the error kozmo please post to the bug open against 0.3.3 here : http://fife.trac.cvsdude.com/engine/ticket/545 17:59:51 <kozmo> ill check this again after meeting 18:00:22 <prock> #366 - Layers need z_offset, #487 - Variable mouse sensitivity, etc etc 18:00:45 <prock> basically I have to go through all the tickets and try and resolve as many as I can 18:01:00 <prock> that you guys aren't working on 18:01:07 <prock> should take a couple weeks to get that all done 18:01:23 <vtchill> ok 18:02:00 <prock> next task is to finish implementing some tests for ticket #423. I have created a simple testing app 18:02:38 <vtchill> yep thats an important one 18:02:53 <prock> which should simplify creating new tests for fife 18:03:04 <prock> so you dont have to modify rio or the other demos 18:03:19 <prock> I'll need some ideas for some tests to include 18:03:27 <prock> but we can talk about that later on if you want 18:03:40 <kozmo> do u wanna get rid of all the demos and stick to unit tests platform only? 18:03:44 <vtchill> yep lets hold that off for later, getting the framework in place is a big step 18:04:09 <prock> I think I would like to keep 2 demos.. the shooter and the rpg demo (when we actually get some art for it) 18:04:34 <prock> for this release we will keep rio, pychan, and shooter demos 18:04:50 <vtchill> i was thinking for now it would be nice to at least show off the atlas capabilities by moving all rio assets into a couple atlases 18:05:07 <kozmo> +1 18:05:13 <prock> put #idea in front of that vtchill 18:06:11 <prock> next task of mine is to update the changelog 18:06:17 <vtchill> #idea transition rio_de_hola demo to use atlases for all of its assets to show new atlas capability of fife engine 18:06:32 <prock> :D 18:07:00 <vtchill> also very important and should be easier now that we track changes with bugs better 18:07:46 <prock> oh and cant forget as another task to document deprecated functions 18:08:00 <prock> like the python loader/savers 18:08:21 <vtchill> yep good point 18:08:45 <vtchill> is there currently a good way to document deprecated features? 18:09:06 <prock> #action decide on what to deprecate in this release as well as how to document them 18:09:46 <prock> and my final task(s) would be related to the actual release.. meaning I would have to package all source and upload to sourceforge, etc etc 18:09:55 <prock> and update our wiki 18:10:03 <prock> I have a release procudre document on the wiki to follow 18:10:09 <prock> procedure even 18:10:25 <prock> I'll summarize my tasks 18:11:15 <prock> #info Task 1: Review and close any remaining tickets. Duration: 1 week 18:12:15 <prock> #info Task 2: implement some tests in the new testing platform 18:12:55 <prock> #info Task 3: Document deprecated functionality 18:13:44 <prock> #info Task 4: follow release procedure on fife wiki and release FIFE 0.3.3 18:13:54 <prock> okay thats about it 18:14:19 <prock> I just realized that we could be putting #action in front of those.. oh well no big deal 18:14:24 <kozmo> i guess its mu turn now 18:14:41 <prock> yup :D 18:15:28 <kozmo> surely - documentation for atlas creator 18:15:55 <kozmo> and xml format that it uses (also the one for animpacks) 18:16:01 <prock> oh that reminds me.. we need scons build scripts for the creator 18:16:23 <kozmo> to build it u just need to calls, qmake and then make 18:16:38 <kozmo> should be easy to make scons work 18:16:56 <kozmo> (eventually qmake and nmake) 18:17:20 <kozmo> how should I 'officially' call animpacks in documentation? 18:18:18 <kozmo> they should also get a page 18:18:46 <vtchill> well they are animations 18:19:07 <prock> hmm.. good question. Animation Pack? 18:19:38 <vtchill> well what makes them different than a normal animation, besides having multiple jammed into a single file 18:19:58 <kozmo> thats rather all 18:20:10 <vtchill> maybe, spritesheet 18:20:26 <kozmo> was thinkning about it too 18:20:52 <vtchill> sprite sheet is rather generic, doesn't necessarily mean its all part of an animation 18:20:52 <prock> works for me 18:21:59 <vtchill> i think of spritesheet as a column/row of sprites... and a tileset as a set of related layer tiles in a sprite sheet.. and then an animation as a set that are all geared towards a set sequence of pictures for an effect 18:22:15 <prock> clip? 18:23:24 <vtchill> yea just trying to stay with as normal terms as possible, so people know what we are talking about in our supported features 18:24:05 <vtchill> i would say a combination of sprite sheet and animation 18:24:31 <prock> animation spritesheet? 18:24:39 <prock> :P 18:24:44 <vtchill> yea i mean that is really what is it 18:24:52 <vtchill> is it=it is 18:24:58 <prock> kozmo? what do you think? 18:25:10 <kozmo> im fine with animation spritesheet 18:25:22 <kozmo> doesnt cause confusion imo 18:25:48 <prock> #agreed animpacks will be officially referred to as "animation spritesheets" in our documentation 18:26:39 <vtchill> are animation that are packed in a spritesheet easily used from the editor? 18:27:08 <kozmo> just like normal animation 18:27:14 <vtchill> ok great 18:28:20 <vtchill> render backend documentation to go along with 0.3.3 changes 18:29:28 <vtchill> talks about z ordering, depth test, alpha testing, and image changes 18:30:10 <kozmo> yea thats rather crucial to document 18:30:35 <vtchill> we will need that before the release 18:31:07 <kozmo> is tehre a wiki page for it already? 18:31:40 <prock> I'm not even sure... I dont think there is much in the way of documentation for the renderers now 18:32:01 <prock> -in the way of 18:32:39 <vtchill> not that i know of, i would suggest a new Renderbackend overview and then a specific page on Opengl Renderbackend with more in depth discussion for opengl specifics 18:33:20 <kozmo> i start tomorrow writing about it 18:33:34 <prock> on a side note.. I think the GSoC pencil down date is on the 15th. Time after that is for documentation 18:33:51 <prock> firm pencils down is on the 22nd 18:34:27 <kozmo> something like that prock 18:34:43 <vtchill> which leads perfectly to my next question, any tasks left code wise kozmo? 18:35:26 <kozmo> only bugs that we could discover in next days 18:35:51 <kozmo> yesterday i finished uh loaders for atlases 18:36:17 <vtchill> ok great so it sounds like most of the tasks identified for you are documentation which follow perfectly with gsoc requirements 18:36:30 <prock> coo 18:36:43 <kozmo> yep 18:36:52 <kozmo> i also modified atlas loading method for lazy one 18:37:28 <kozmo> so we doesnt need to load everything up in front, rather load the atlas when first image from it requires rendering 18:38:06 <vtchill> ah cool, that should help with the zero stuff i'm guessing 18:38:42 <prock> well.. not really. they want us to lazy load the regular animations as well 18:38:45 <kozmo> i think its just the begininng, we should also have some mechanism to free unreferenced stuff 18:38:58 <kozmo> because now, mem consumption can only go up 18:39:09 <vtchill> well it does have a free unreferenced 18:39:14 <vtchill> as part of the image manager 18:39:42 <prock> yeah. we could have a timed job that calls free unfreferenced every 10 seconds or something 18:39:49 <kozmo> what i meant is to make it automaticall after some time 18:40:07 <kozmo> automatically* 18:40:18 <prock> perhaps make it a setting so the clients can specify how long to wait to call free unreferenced 18:40:44 <vtchill> we could do automatic, but if we can just get them to switch to using several atlases shouldn't the problem kind of just go away 18:42:19 <vtchill> either their map is gigantic, or they have a pretty insane amount of assets 18:42:28 <vtchill> could break up their map a bit as well 18:42:28 <prock> insane amount of assets 18:46:42 <prock> in any case... kozmo can you outline your remaining tasks the way vtchill and I did 18:46:55 <prock> then we'll move along to next topic 18:47:00 <kozmo> #info Task 1: Document Atlas Creator tool and all of its features 18:47:26 <kozmo> #info Task 2: Document render backend stuff with detailed OpenGL aspects 18:47:51 <kozmo> #info Task 3: Move rio_de_hola to use atlases as a showcase for this new feature 18:48:14 <prock> sounds good :D 18:48:39 <vtchill> yep sounds good 18:48:53 <prock> is that everything kozmo? 18:49:25 <vtchill> only other thing i can think of not tasked to anyone is the atlas creator build script 18:49:32 <vtchill> any of us could do it 18:49:45 <kozmo> #Info Task 4: Document animation spritesheets and atlas format 18:49:47 <kozmo> :) 18:50:07 <vtchill> does it work when info is capatilized? 18:50:14 <prock> no idea 18:50:21 <vtchill> hehe 18:51:19 <prock> #action create a ticket for the atlas creator build scripts 18:51:33 <prock> whoever has time can grab that ticket 18:51:57 <prock> I might have some fun trying to package it so I might need some help with that 18:52:17 <prock> as I dont have qt dev on my machine 18:52:27 <kozmo> oh, i would vote for sdk update 18:52:41 <kozmo> atleast sdl dll files 18:53:18 <kozmo> since i build sdl by myself i have never had any sdl exception during quitting 18:53:33 <prock> okay 18:53:38 <vtchill> yea thats right we have a renamed release dll as debug i believe 18:53:52 <kozmo> the rest is ok i think 18:53:56 <kozmo> prock: macos x ? 18:54:04 <vtchill> we would need to build it on msvc 2008/2005/mingw 18:54:16 <prock> #action create a ticket to update the windows SDK to include newer/correct SDL dlls 18:54:30 <kozmo> i can take 2008 but i dont have 2005 18:54:53 <vtchill> i have 2005, but have never tried to build sdl, so i can take that one as long as its fairly easy :) 18:55:07 <kozmo> its c lib, no problems 18:55:26 <prock> not sure about OS X. I would have to learn how to make frameworks and an installer 18:55:31 <kozmo> just directory names are a bit confusing, for me at least - VisualC 18:55:38 <vtchill> yep lets hold off for os x 18:56:11 <prock> sounds good 18:56:21 <prock> anything else for 0.3.3? 18:56:49 <kozmo> what about librocket? 18:57:00 <prock> thats for 0.3.4 18:57:15 <vtchill> thats it from my side, yea i would hold off there as well 18:57:17 <kozmo> ok 18:57:29 <prock> ticket #549 for that one 18:57:53 <kozmo> http://www.santyago.pl/media/zoom/publish/2011/03/update-for-your-computer.jpg funny pic 18:58:17 <vtchill> hehe 18:58:20 <prock> lol not bad 18:58:52 <prock> okay... if thats it I'll change the topic 18:58:58 <vtchill> yep 18:59:08 <prock> #topic 0.3.3 release date 18:59:54 <prock> okay.. when to release? 19:00:01 <prock> end of september? 19:00:12 <vtchill> i know i will be out of town at least 2-3 weeks in the next 5 or so 19:00:18 <vtchill> sorry meant weekends 19:00:29 <prock> I'm on vacation for a couple weeks in august as well 19:00:36 <kozmo> when uh wants to release 2011.3? 19:00:51 <vtchill> so 2-3 weekends within the next 5 weeks i will be out of town 19:00:55 <vtchill> i think end of sept. is realistic 19:01:05 <vtchill> and if we hit a little earlier than so be it 19:01:24 <prock> sounds good... say the 30th? 19:01:34 <prock> last friday and the last day of september 19:01:40 <vtchill> i am comfortable with that 19:01:47 <kozmo> sounds good 19:01:52 <kozmo> wishing u good weather, here in poland we call july julember because of rains :) 19:01:55 <vtchill> when is uh next release 19:02:15 <kozmo> they had .2 in 1st july i think 19:02:23 <vtchill> ok 19:02:32 <vtchill> so i think sept. will be plenty of time for them 19:03:08 <prock> okay.. the 30th it is then 19:03:21 <prock> #agreed FIFE 0.3.3 release day will be September 30th, 2011 19:03:36 <prock> earlier if possible of course 19:03:48 <prock> now... anything else? 19:03:50 <kozmo> yea, like RC 19:03:51 <prock> oh yes I have one thing 19:04:11 <prock> 0.3.3dev doesn't compile for me in mingw.. I just tried it 19:04:20 <vtchill> error? 19:04:55 <kozmo> didnt checked my commit against mingw, just g++ on linux 19:05:20 <prock> http://pastebin/com/1XHN1fPj 19:06:09 <kozmo> 404 19:06:18 <vtchill> yea pastebin not loading for me 19:06:20 <prock> oops.... .com 19:06:30 <prock> http://pastebin.com/1XHN1fPj 19:09:54 <prock> did that last one work? 19:09:57 <vtchill> hmm odd error 19:10:23 <vtchill> almost like a macro name has changed 19:10:40 <vtchill> but this file has changed in forever 19:11:41 <vtchill> you sure you don't have local changes? 19:14:16 <kozmo> i got that too on mingw 19:14:37 <prock> no local changes 19:16:25 <kozmo> SDLK_DELETE is somehow guilty 19:16:58 <vtchill> thats what it looks like 19:17:57 <kozmo> if i comment this its ok 19:18:47 <prock> is there any other topics we need to discuss? 19:18:52 <prock> I need to get going soon 19:19:00 <vtchill> i think that is it 19:19:04 <prock> awesome... 19:19:07 <prock> kozmo? 19:19:22 <kozmo> not really 19:19:44 <prock> okay.. I'll end the meeting then 19:19:47 <prock> #endmeeting